IN this interview, social critic and former Lagos State Police commissioner, Alhaji Abubakar Tsav spoke on the ongoing pros­ecution of the Senate President, Dr Bukola Saraki by the Code of Conduct Tribunal describing it as witch-hunt. He also spoke on other salient national issues.
Probe of Senate President.
I am totally against corruption and I demonstrated this when I was in the police service. I served in Lagos State where the action is and I had the oppor­tunity to make a lot of money but I did not do that. I served in Ibadan where I also had op­portunity to make money but I refused to be compromised. Then, I served in Abia. Appar­ently, somebody else wanted Abia, so, I only spent 24 hours there before I was transferred out of Abia to another formation. But in all, I think my posting out of Abia was an act of God because may be if I had stayed there, I would have been contaminated with corruption or I would have been attacked if I refused to yield to their corrupt overtures. I left there for Sokoto where people thought I was deployed to as a punishment but it was not like that. Yes, there was no job here but I was able to create job for myself. At the end, I endeared myself to the people of Sokoto. I even got appointed as acting Military Administrator when the substantive Military Administra­tor went on leave. In the midst of many senior military officers, Abacha selected me and gave me that. I think this was an act of God based on my anteced­ents. So, the issue of this senate president, I think we are creating a very dangerous precedence in this country. The senate president is being charged for an offense which they said he committed in 2003. Why did they not take him on on this since then even when Obasanjo was in power? Why did they wait until now? So, my own opinion is that we have got a new government under President Buhari and he has code-named this government as the government of change. Where you have the leadership that is demonstrating honesty, due process and respect for the rule of law. Why did they select this man? Why did they have to wait for 13 years before bringing up this issue?.
Every person who served this country as governor has some stains on him. After all, Nuhu Ribadu said so. He said every­body had one case or another to answer. How did they select only Saraki and why did they have to wait until he became Senate President before probing him?. I am against this pick and choose sort of probe because our leaders are not showing the fear of God. They are not showing fairness. They are not being fair to us. We are returning back to the days of Obasanjo when Alameseigha, Dariye and the other man in Ekiti were intimidated and harassed. Why must we resort to this kind of thing? Why can’t we do things with the fear of God and do things the way they should be done? After all, we took oath of office that we would do justice to all manner of people. We swore by the Holy Quran and by the Bi­ble, yet we are doing things that are wrong. I am not supporting Saraki. If he has done anything wrong they should deal with him but why did they wait until now before instituting probe on him when people who are saying, ‘crucify him’ have committed dirtier crime than him. We know that Saraki’s father was very wealthy but we don’t know how he made his money. And nobody tried to probe him when his father was alive. Nobody tried to probe him when he was gover­nor. Why are they probing him now? Those pushing for Saraki’s probe are struggling because of their personal political interest and this is the aspect that I don’t like.
If we must do justice to our­selves, let every past governor subject himself to probe. I spend my time, for several years. writ­ing petitions to ICPC and EFCC against Akume and I established my case. I challenged them severally that if Akume felt I was lying, he should please take me to court. But he never took me to court. These are the same people who are now saying ‘crucify him’. What are we teaching our children? We have not demon­strated the fear of God at all. President Buhari has come in with clean intentions. Everybody appreciates him and I think most of these people who won their elections sailed through because of Buhari. But I think if he plays the kind of politics we play in this country, he may soon lose his integrity. We are not saying Saraki should not be tried. He should be tried because corrup­tion is evil and that is what is bringing insurgency into this country. Corruption brings all sorts of crime to the country. When corruption is set to play, it leaves people frustrated and angry. There can be no develop­ment in a country where corrup­tion thrives. That is why we are not developing. We started at the same time with countries tries like Brazil. There is corruption everywhere. Why can’t we for once go back to God and repent so that this country can move forward? If Buhari wants to maintain his integrity, he should try and ensure things are done right under him. Leadership is given to man by God. See how many times Buhari had tried to be president and didn’t win. This last time, God just decided to give him that opportunity.
So, would you go with the school of thought that Saraki’s probe is a witch-hunt?
That is what I am saying. If this man committed this crime in 2003, why did they wait until now before probing him? Why didn’t they take it up on him long ago? Why didn’t hey take it up on him when he was in PDP and romancing with the APC? We are trying to create problems for ourselves. We have people we may say are experienced politi­cians, we have people who say they are legal luminaries. But all these qualifications they claim to have are at variance with their wisdom. You may go to the university and get degrees but the wisdom God gives some­body who has not gone o school can be better than yours. I don’t know if Churchill and others went to school at all but they are people of wisdom.
But don’t you think Saraki’s probe is just the starting point of many more probes to come?
No, the assets they are charg­ing him for is what they said he did many years back when he was governor. Why don’t they wait for him to declare his assets now and compare it with what he declared then? If you want to start a probe, start from the bottom. People who are shouting crucify him now are doing so be­cause they want to step into his shoes. These people also have stench under them,why can’t they start from such people too? The defection of people from PDP to APC provided strange bed fellows. Some of them united themselves in corruption. Some of them perhaps helped one another to escape prosecu­tion. That is why you have this type of development. Right from the time of Obasanjo, Obasanjo had good intention to fight cor­ruption in this country but he did not. Instead, they made officers in charge of fighting corruption to make money for themselves. If government is sincere in its fight against corruptions why can’t they go after those who has headed these anti-corruption agencies to know whether they made money for themselves or not? That is what can create fear in the mind of whoever is appointed to man anti corruption agencies in this country.
What is your take on the call for Saraki’s resignation by some people?
Saraki is only accused and has not Ben found guilty. So, how can they say he should resign when he has not been found guilty? As far as I am concerned, they are only putting the cart before the horse. They should try him and if he is found guilty, then he can go. Code of Conduct Tribunal too is not following due process. If they had found anything wrong with his asset declaration, they should have invited him to come and clarify. It is only when he is not able to clarify that he can be charged.
Would you say the two anti-corruption agencies are living up to expectation?
If you have read an interview granted by Justice Akanbi, you would see where he said he regretted recommending Justice Agboola to take over from him. Why did he say that? This is somebody who is against corruption. Indirectly, he may have been saying the man is not following his steps. Perhaps the man is corrupt. He also said some judges have imported furnitures into their homes. You see, we are embedded in corrup­tion and people are not prepared to speak the truth. If I had the opportunity of being president, I would probe all heads of anti-corruption agencies. What do you say of somebody who goes in poor and comes out stinkingly rich? If we really want to fight corruption, start from heads of anti-corruption. Then those be­low them will start doing things right.
Another worrying area is the issue of Boko Haram. Do you subscribe to Federal Govern­ment negotiating with the group?
This issue of negotiating with insurgents, I think somebody is playing on the intelligence of the rest of us. If they want to negoti­ate, then they should negotiate with Shekau because, Shekau is the known leader of Boko Ha­ram. And Shekau is saying he is not part if whatever negotiations had been going on. Anybody who is saying he is represent­ing Shekau now is only trying to cheat the government. I know somebody who was siting before the former security Adviser. He said they can release these Chibok girls if they bring certain sum of money. They brought the money and took photographs of this man with the money. As soon as he collected the money, the man came up with different stories saying today, tomorrow and all that until the whole thing flopped. This happened during Jonathan’s tenure. People who pose as representatives of Boko Haram are only lying. They are cheats.
But is it possible for the Fed­eral Government to negotiate with terrorist group?
Since we have the military, we don’t need negotiation. During the civil war, did Nigeria negoti­ate with the Biafran troupe? They did not. They were able to overrun the Biafran troupe. And the area that these terrorists occupy is not as big and difficult as Biafran routes. So, why must they negotiate with them? Our soldiers have enough equip to attack them. If they cannot attack them, we have so many school leavers. Enlist them into the Army, train them very well and they will go and deal with the situation. In the past, people mad a lot of money on the claim that they were fighting Boko Haram. They took this money and went and killed innocent people. Some took the money and went and contested for governorship in their states.